Kerrfunk

 “What’s Happening in The UMC?” (part two)

An information and discussion session will be led by PK in the Fellowship Hall on Sunday evening Oct 22 @ 6:30pm. Come and see!

     Part one: Sept 10 @ 6:30
     (online notes at https://kerrfunk.blogspot.com/2023/09 )

(this blog post is a roughly formatted script of my talking points.

The paragraphs are numbered for convenient discussion)

What this is, and what this is not.
- The previous presentation was about how I see What’s been happening in The UMC for the past few years. (just the facts, ma’am)
This is NOT a vote about whether to stay in the UMC or leave the UMC -- by no means are we informed enough or ready to make any such decision today.

- This is a presentation of how I see THE ISSUES behind what’s been happening in The UMC for the past few years.
NOT me trying to tell you what to think
Last time was designed to be unbiased; this time I present MY point of view, MY understanding of the issues.
Keep in mind this is a hotly debated topic among the faithful at all levels of discipleship and education.

- I do not expect everyone to agree with me 100%.
  I do love you, and that will not change.
  I do expect you to do your research, as I have done mine,
  and if necessary, I hope that we can agree to disagree.

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.”

- I said at my introduction that I am committed to The United Methodist Church and it is my hope that you are as well.

- And like I said before, and this is not a cop-out: like life, things are messy on multiple levels. There are a number of areas where things simply are not ideal, and there are places where God-loving Bible-believing disciples come to different and opposing conclusions. It’s my goal to have a respectful presentation and open the way for honest and potentially difficult dialogue.

- Prefer questions at the end.

Note: …to share with ALL the transforming love of Jesus Christ

1. I have said that if you ask a northerner what the Civil War was about, slavery. Ask a southerner, state’s rights.

Which is accurate?

The answer is complicated by plantation owners wanting the population bump for government representation while not getting the actual tax burden.

Also it’s worth considering: who fought the war: there were politicians, and officers, and grunts. Young men who joined the cause because they believed in it, young men who joined the cause because someone they knew believed in it, young men who wanted something to do.

“Bottom line,” pinning the Civil War solely on slavery does not give a fully accurate picture.

à Pinning the current strife in The UMC on “homosexuality” does not give a fully accurate picture.

2. What do we mean by homosexuality?

Mutual love and affection between equals of the same sex,
perhaps with desire for monogamy and raising a family.
3. What does the Bible mean by homosexuality?

So regarding the issue of homosexuality, there are a number of ways to examine the topic:
I. A. Biblical language. Malakoi and arsenokoitai.  (1 Cor 6:9, 1 Tim 1:10)
I. B. Biblical language. Hate your family. (Luke 14:26)
I. C. Homosexuality as we know it is not described in the Bible.

II. A. Biblical precedent. genocide, rape (1 Sam 15, Num 31)
II. B. Women preachers. (1 Tim 2) Stone disobedient (Lev 20:13)
II. C. Adam Hamilton “God’s timeless will.”

III. Cultural, and the place of the church in civil legislation. Jews and bacon.

 

I. A. Two or three instances in NT where a type of same-sex sexual activity is described, using Greek words Malakoi and Arsenokoitai.

4. Malakoi = soft. Actually used to describe fabric. (A man clothed in soft raiment?) Effeminate. The receiving partner. Context: Male cultic prostitute.

5. Arsenokoitai. “man-bed”. A word Paul coined, perhaps based on Lev 20:13, but how accurately do you define a word that somebody made up? Pederast.
Each instance of these words in NT is used in a list of vices not describing mutual relationship, and generally decrying common greed envy gossip pride.
I.A: not a solid linguistic case wrt malakoi and arsenokoitai.

 

6. I. B. Biblical language. Times we *have* to make an interpretation.
Luke 14:26: must *hate* your father mother sister brother or you cannot be disciple. It does not say prioritize. It says hate. And we have to make a choice.

 

7. I. C. Homosexuality as we know it is not described in the Bible.
There are several same-sex sexual actions that are decried, along the lines of rape and pederasty and temple prostitution.

 

Suppose you don’t agree with this interpretation.

 

8. II. A. When it comes to the Bible there are times when we *must* go against the text. Two examples: 1 Sam 15, Num 31

1 Samuel 15:2-3 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for Mwhat they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” … and Saul utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.

Numbers 31:9-10 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. (several verses later Moses orders the execution of all the boys and of all the women who were not virgins, allowing the soldiers to keep the virgins for themselves.)

We call those "war crimes" and imprison those people who commit such acts, as well as those who authorized or planned them.

Numbers 14:18 ‘The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

Punishing people who have committed no crime themselves violates all notions of justice.

 

9. II. B. Women preachers.

1 Timothy 2:11-15

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

That notion is used to this day in conservative Christian sects (Catholicism, Orthodox) and churches (Protestant) to prevent women from holding positions of influence.

Verses from the Bible were also used to support slavery in the southern American States.

Just because something is in the Bible does not mean it is moral.

Also: Lev 20:13 calls for the execution of men who lie with mankind as with a woman (and partner).
Why don’t we do that?

 

United Methodists proudly ordain women. We believe the call to ministry is not limited to those with XY chromosomes.
If you are opposed to female pastors, you might not find yourself at home in The United Methodist Church. AND, “even the Global Methodist Church” has no plans to limit ordained ministry to men.

10. II. C. Adam Hamilton “God’s timeless will.”
Three buckets: timeless will (love your neighbor), temporal will (much of ritual law), cultural reflection but not God’s will (genocide and rape)

 

Suppose you don’t agree with this approach.

 

11. III. Cultural, and the place of the church in civil legislation. Jews and bacon.
Much press in the last decade or so about bakeries not wanting to bake cakes for gay weddings. Kim Davis in Kentucky refusing to file paperwork for legal same-sex weddings. I call this the Jews and bacon premise.

Very basically, Jews don’t eat pork. And Jews do not legislate for all people to not eat pork.
Some Christians are against same-sex marriage, and cite sincerely-held religious convictions. Who should those convictions affect? Christians like them.

 

12. GMC born out of disagreement with some of the interpretations I’ve presented, and their desire to nuture holiness as they see it. GMC seeks to rigidly discipline members who disagree with their interpretation.

 

Some additional paragraphs that I gleaned from others:

 

The arc of Scripture points toward inclusion, not exclusion.

In the Old Testament, those who were sexually different—like eunuchs and barren women—were barred from entering the assembly of the Lord (see Deuteronomy 23:1). But within the text of Scripture, we see greater inclusion of gender and sexual minorities: one of the first Gentile converts to Christianity was an Ethiopian eunuch (see Acts 8:26-39). The New Testament’s trajectory toward greater inclusion of eunuchs offers important precedent for the inclusion of gender and sexual minorities today.

 

The Bible really has very little if anything to say to concerns over homosexuality. Jesus never addressed the issue as far as we know, for there is no reference to it in the gospels, Acts, or Paul's quotations of Jesus. As such, even if we label homosexuality as sinful, the Bible gives less stress to homosexuality than it does to greed, lying, or failing to offer cold water to the thirsty.

The concerns of Leviticus seem to revolve around issues of ritual purity, creating distance between the fertility cults surrounding Israel, and maintaining well-defined boundaries in life. These are the concerns behind not eating shellfish, prohibitions against eating blood, and keeping distance between worship and contact with bodily fluids.

The Bible does not deal with homosexuality as a relationship between equals. Its authors had no contact with such a relationship. We need to understand, therefore, that rather than looking for texts regarding sexuality to guide our comprehension of how the Bible speaks to homosexuality today, we should instead look at how the Bible addresses human relationships and the incorporation of the marginalized into the larger society. We need to address all people under the guidance of Jesus' declarations of God's love for all people, without exception.

 

And ten points shared by Matthew Vines:

1.       Condemning same-sex relationships is harmful to LGBT people.

2.       Sexual orientation is a new concept, one the Christian tradition hasn’t addressed.

3.       Celibacy is a gift, not a mandate.

4.       Sodom and Gomorrah involved an attempted gang rape, not a loving relationship.

5.       The prohibitions in Leviticus don’t apply to Christians.

6.       Paul condemns same-sex lust, not love.

7.       The term “homosexual” didn’t exist until 1892.

8.       Marriage is about commitment.

9.       Human beings are relational.

10.    Faithful Christians are already embracing LGBT brothers and sisters.

I’ve been a United Methodist pastor for twenty years and there’s still so much I’m learning about our wonderful connection and the many ways we have for ordinary people – disciples like you and me – to be involved in all kinds of ministries.

I spent a beautiful autumn Saturday in a church basement with fifteen other people, learning about one specific area of disaster-response ministry provided by The United Methodist Church: the Early Response Team (ERT). You may have heard that our United Methodist Committee On Relief (UMCOR) is first on the ground after a disaster, and last to leave after recovery. I learned that before work teams go in to rebuild, re-roof, and re-paint, ERTs go to disaster sites to “provide a caring Christian presence in the aftermath of a disaster.” Before rebuilding can happen, these specialized teams provide some needed clean-up labor and some equally-important companionship. Grief work and relationships go hand-in-hand with elbow grease and cleaning up.

Early Response Teams are made of people from local congregations who are willing, able, and ready to lend a hand for a few days after something like a flood or tornado. They are not there to rescue people or put out fires (that’s for trained professionals) and they are not there to rebuild (that’s for recovery teams), but they are there after the danger has passed and before the rebuilding can occur. They are there for the people and some of the clean-up. The work of the ERT is social and spiritual as well as physical. And since disasters tend to affect communities, ideally ERTs are made up of people from nearby communities or counties.

There are over 400 communities in West Virginia, from the 15 people in Birch River (Nicholas County) to the 50,000 people in Charleston. We have close to a thousand United Methodist Churches across the region. Wouldn’t it be great to have an Early Response Team in your community?

Contact our Conference Disaster Response Coordinator, the Rev. Jim McCune (email: DisasterResponse@wvumc.org) to find out how you can become part of an Early Response Team near you!

Rev. Kerry Bart, Epworth UMC Ripley, Jackson County